The Full Tilt Podcast

Unknown: That run was 4.2 miles.
It doesn't matter. Sometimes,

sometimes, sometimes the match
might go longer. I said, Yeah,

but 4.2 miles is an eternity.
That was the first time. That

was my second year at I was like
crazy, but I'm crazy, so you

gotta match your crazies up and
see if it's gonna work for you,

but that was the first time I
thought that I might have been

in trouble like over my head.

This is the Full Tilt podcast
with hatch. Welcome everyone to

our initial episode. Really
super excited to have elite

storytellers, the elite legends
of the sport of wrestling on

this podcast today is no
exception. We have the one, the

only the fall guy and legend.
Voice, Alger, hey, hey, voice,

what's happening?

Oh, not too much. I decided

Mike's been trying to get me out
here to do some work at his club

for quite a quite a while, the
young guns. So I finally

relented. I have a opening. So I
came out and enjoyed Nashville,

and we saw some sites, and we
put down some about two hours of

curriculum for these kids, and
trying to get them to man up.

And we're I was excited to see
your setup here at what was the

name of that school we're at?

Oh, Montgomery, Bell Academy.

Patrick Simpson and his crew.
I've

never seen a school more innate
and ornate than that high

school. I mean, I don't even
want to know what the tuition is

there, but they had an indoor
training like in their football

field. Oh, it's just in this
tempered weather the you had

that

it's like, Iowa guys, yeah, I
was said, Right,

no, it was pretty impressed. And
plus, we went to what was the

name of that wrestling event
that I went here a couple years

ago,

National Collegiate duels. Yeah?
Our boy, Frank, popolicio, best

events of the country.

Yeah, we went out there. And in
my son, he was trying to make it

like ever, like 50,000 other
people in Nashville, trying to

make it in country music. He
played in the halftime, yeah,

you know. So it was a good, good
way to segue, to go come out

here and and I kind of fell in
love with Nashville, except for

your traffic. Your traffic sucks
out.

Yes, it does. It keeps getting
worse. Just little intro with

Royce. I've known Royce forever,
and anybody, honestly, anybody

that's listening this podcast
probably not only has heard of

Royce Alger, but knows really
what he's about, what he's been

about, and as a competitor and
coach and everything. But

obviously, former coach at the
University of Iowa, three time

state champ in Iowa, three time
big 10 champ, two time NCAA

champ, two time World Cup gold
medalist 1990 world silver,

three time US Open champ and a
two time Pan American Gold

Medalist, now the current head
coach of the Titan Mercury

wrestling club. Man Royce,
really, really appreciate your

time here and where I tell you
what of all the athletic

accomplishments that Royce has
back in the day, all the

coaching accomplishments that
he's still accruing. Royce is

probably well known as one of
the greatest, not only

personalities but storytellers
in the whole history of sport,

of wrestling, and that's what we
got him on here for. So I'm

going to get right. We're
getting right to it. We're

coming in hot. Royce, I want one
of your funniest Iowa wrestling

stories from back in the day.
What do you got for us? Oh, team

it up. Team it up right now.

Royce, wow, wow. Well, I tell
you what, I know we got. Randy

Lewis is going to be on here
eventually, and he's stolen a

couple of my stories and asked
me to never tell them, because

it's his favorite stories. And I
accused him of story steal. And

I think there is a bylaw
somewhere that you can't steal a

story and but I'm gonna, I'm
gonna start out with the gate,

just to show you how incredulous
this story is. People won't

believe it, but I was lucky
enough, just like Matt. Matt

grew up in the same we were born
in the same hospital. I don't

know if people know that, but we
were from Iowa, and the main

name in in the state of Iowa,
and probably every state in the

union is Gable. Everybody knows
Dan Gable, and he's the man.

Everyone knows that he went
undefeated for two years and for

two, not two years for like all
high school and all. College any

route. I just got done winning
two national titles for them, I

went to my first international
tournament. Was the sun kissed

open. And I wrestled guys like
Schultz and and Melvin Douglas

and, you know, world class guys
right out of the gate. That was

the qualifier back in the day.
If you wanted to go to Tbilisi,

that was the toughest tournament
in the world. You had to go win

that tournament, and then you
got to go to Russia, you know,

to represent our country. So I
went there. I went undefeated

for two years, and I went to
Sunkiss, and I took second. I

got beat three to two in the
finals by Melvin Douglas. And

I'm coming into the room. This
is a great story, because it's

gonna involve Gable. I was
coming into the room to sit down

in Gable was given the the the
wrestlers a bunch of grief about

not coming into practice early
and being ready to go at three

o'clock. He goes. And we're
tired of this, you know, we we

gotta, we gotta start coming in
and punching the clock. We got

to be here at three people
coming in late. People not ready

to go, not tying those shoes up.
We got to be ready to go. We got

to go represent and blah, blah,
blah. And I just walked in in

the whole crowd that we all we
have these bleachers in our room

before practice, and Gable is
talking to us. They all turned

to me, and Gable thought it was
an opportune time to basically

throw me under the bus. And he
goes, isn't that right? Melvin?

So he Melvin Douglas is the guy
beat me I unlocked in two years.

And I was like, it was like
somebody threw a cold glass of

water on me and I I looked at
him real quickly, and like I

always do with a quick thinking
on my feet, and I said, What's

that, Larry? So, you know,
Mike's laughing right now, but

Larry, owing is the guy that the
only guy to beat Gable in high

school and college, and Gable
thought he'd throw me under the

bus. And I looked at him, and
when I said, What's that, Larry,

he ran into the other room. He
could not believe I said that

just how brazen and crazy he
thinks I am. It's kind of like

bad medicine. You know, the
Indians, they just, and I

generally live by the adage, if
you can't find anything nice to

say, at least have the decency
to be vague. So so I, I threw

that back at him, but that story
gets told to me by all of those

guys that were on the bench
because they were like, quiet.

They were like third graders
watching their mom and dad get

in the fight. No one's gonna say
anything, you know, especially

if mom's really fighting. So
it's like, okay, Eldridge just

called Dan Gable Larry, the only
loss he had in college and in

high school. In How's Gable
gonna respond? And Gable could

not believe I said it. To this
day, I talked to gable 30

minutes today. He's down in
Florida right now. We've talked

about sauna and stuff, but to
this day, he still can't believe

I called him Larry in front of
everybody, because you're you're

either crazy or the toughest guy
I've ever seen.

Well, I mean, both could be very
true. But speaking of Gable, I

mean obviously that, you know,
he's and I love my five years

that I was there and he was
just, he's been in such a huge

impact on my life and impact on
yours, and everybody else that

he's come in contact with. But
what was the I know, I know that

I did it quite often, but there
had to be a time when, I know

you're probably excited and
going to wrestle at University

of Iowa for Dan Gable, but
coming out very successful high

school wrestler. Well, there had
to be a slap in the face at one

point in time, maybe as a gable
workout. Maybe it was some time,

some type of adversity right off
the jump at Iowa that made you

think, man, I don't know. I'm
not sure here

we don't know. There's one time
that I knew that he we were

always suspected that he might
be crazy. And I remember one

time we were doing the long
loop. You remember the long loop

around the golf course and
around the it was a 4.2 mile

loop, oh yeah. And I was going
out, and this was the day I was

going to beat Barry Davis. Barry
Davis is a story in itself. We

could do five podcasts on him.
He lived in the dorms all the

years of his career in the
dorms, and he took a silver in

the Olympics in 84 and he was
our starter in 85 so he he

would, he would keep his metal
on his wall, and I'd ride my

bicycle down on Hillcrest. It
was too far to walk, so I'd ride

my bicycle in the halls, down to
his room to look at that silver

medal every day. So he he
inspired me, unbelievable. But

Cedar Rapids prairie guy, Cedar
Rapids prairie but, uh. Yeah, I

remember one time I said, All
right, I'm tired of that damn

Davis winning all these long
rows. His his wife, Nan, she won

the 10,000 meter division one
title. So he was getting outside

workouts that we weren't, we
weren't a party to

so I showed up there and

ready to go, and we're we're
ready to we're ready to start.

We start out. He boom, he takes
off like a bat out of hell. And

we're running, it's 4.2 miles.
So we're coming down the

stretch. And I was a sprinter. I
actually had, I was a rusher,

and you had my rushing record
for 43 years at my high school.

So I'm a sprinter. I was just
waiting that last 70 yards, and

I was getting up there just
ready to pass, and we had about

20 yards left to go, and he was
going a million mile an hour,

but I was just, I timed the
kick. I kind of played in this,

in the in the sand a little bit,
you know, kind of sand banging a

little bit, and then turned it
on, and I was just ready to pass

him that last 10 years, and
Gable, Gable Gable saw it, and

he's he's got big and he goes,
All right, one more. And I'm

like, both Barry and I stopped,
and I was more pissed than

Barry, because I was gonna win
my first time, and he goes, that

effing gable effingness, and
Evan that, and they were

throwing the Jesus Chrysler's
out there, and Johnny Regan was

passed that effing Jesus,
Chrysler, blah, blah, blah,

blah, blah, and Johnny Regan
passed us both, because I just

started walking, Barry and I
just started walking because we

just ran the whole thing. We
beat everybody about 110 yards.

Are we gonna run another? Run
another one more? I remember

Johnny Regan running by. He's a
good man. He's a good man. Jesus

Christ, the good so we ended up
running again, but I didn't

matter. I mean, we were, we were
so mad at Gable for saying one

more, because cable got caught
up into it all the time. It was,

why would you say that it was
4.2 miles? That run was 4.2

miles? It doesn't matter.
Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes

the match might go longer than
you think you got to be ready

for it. I said, Yeah, but 4.2
miles is an eternity if you're

running, you know, 530 miles. So
that was a time I had a really

question, that maybe he was
like, he would didn't have our

best interests at hand. You
know, died out there. It was

about 85 degrees. It was early,
was early September. So that was

the first time. That was my
second year at Iowa. I was like,

Gabel, might be crazy, but I'm
crazy, so you gotta match your

crazies up and see if it's gonna
work for you. But that was the

first time I thought that I
might have been in trouble, like

over my head. I can make it
analogous to somebody swimming

out and getting caught in a
riptide or something. You're

like, oh shit. Oh tired, right?
I'm not gonna make you back to

shore, and I got a crazy man out
there with a whip. So that's the

answer your question. That's the
long answer,

yeah. Well, I mean, everybody's
got those stories.

It's, he's, well, they call it
Gable time. There was never,

yeah, remember, still to this
day, it's Gable time. Kurt Angle

wrote about his book, yeah,
Gable time. Would we have people

that come that are not
indigenous to the state of Iowa?

They come out and they go in
there 30 seconds in. You know,

you're timing in your head.
You're almost, you know, one,

Mississippi, two Mississippi. I
said, Dude, I wouldn't try to be

pulled into 30 seconds. I mean,
it might, he might see two or

three different goes and get
involved in them another minute,

then you're the 30 seconds, 10
more seconds, and then just

screw around with the time, like
time is linear. It doesn't have

any value in that room. I said,
cable. Why do you even say that?

It doesn't matter. Doesn't
matter. You don't know what's

gonna happen. You don't know
what's gonna happen. So those

mind games, and there's some
people that are very pragmatic,

like my buddy, Eric Pearson.
He's from Missouri, and they

sell cattle down there, and they
got land, and if you're on their

land illegally, they're gonna
shoot you. You know, just,

that's just the way things work
down there. Very pragmatic. And

you say, your mind is your word
and this and that and, and, you

know, there's sale barns, they
just shake hands on it while I

saw a shook on it. And, and he
it frustrated him so much, he

about had to leave the program.
I can't trust him. I can't trust

him. He said, 30 seconds and
three minutes later, I can't

trust a guy like that.

But it's funny though that like
hearing it from, like, your

perspective, who's, you know,
obviously accomplished elite. I

mean, I was when I was there, I
was there for four and a half

years, and I. Probably wrestled
coach cable more than anybody on

the team. He would literally
grab me, whether it be mid

practice, end of practice,
whatever, for the last four and

a half years of my career there.
And it was not only like one

more 30 seconds, 30 more
seconds. Blah, blah, blah, blah,

blah, he would leave it doing
this to me while he's on top of

me with my arm behind my back
and something you're thinking,

30 more seconds, I just gotta
hold on. And three minutes

later, he's still got my arm
behind my back, and he he's

still coaching practice. You
guys, actually, yes, I had to do

it while you're wrestling.

Somebody else. Yeah, he had
people that he grabbed. Oh yeah,

I was, yeah, you were Ellen
Miller, just, yeah, some guys

got their stories, because
that's how he got a sweat in and

that worked out, and he would
just grab plus he beat he was

phenomenal on top. So just do
that. He just stayed on top. And

that was,

that, was that where you got a
lot of your top work. I mean,

you were mostly on top too. I
mean, that was

yeah, no, no, no. In the guys
that are above me, I'm fourth on

the pin list. But the guys that
are above hence the name fall

guy, yeah, but all the guys, the
guys above me were, the three

guys above me were, were Andy
Lewis, who's a pinning machine,

and a freak, but the other guys
were heavier, you know, bed

banning those guys, you know,
you get those pins. You know,

just that weight gets over and
they get close, but not your

athletes. You know, if you look
at your Beth, and I'm not

bragging, but I don't care if it
sounds like

it anyway, you said one time, I
hate to stop you there, but you

told you used to have the
saying. And you said it often

enough, but it holds very true.
It's not bragging if you've done

it.

Yeah, no, it's not bragging if
you've done it. I'm 60 years

old, so I always said it's just
harder, because if you look at

all your professional sports,
your best athletes are right

there, about 185 181 85 now that
used to be smaller back in the

day, but right now it's closer
to 200 you know, those are your

athletes, guys that can dunk a
ball. I'd like to know how much

Michael Jordan weighs, you know,
or Carl Lewis ways, but you get

up heavier, you don't have the
athleticism, and you get

lighter. It's just not, you
know, they're just not there,

not that those guys can't
wrestle, you know, because I was

on world teams with John Smith,
who was phenomenal. But you're

athletes. You're seeing the
athletic that wins 100 yard

dashes and stuff. They're all
about Buck 80, you know. So I

always said I had to pin a lot
of real good athletes. You get,

you know, those bigger
heavyweights, they get a little

tippy. We're just

talking about, like the guys
that you wrestled yesterday at

the clinic. And, I mean, you're,
I mean, I asked you point blank,

in front of all the kids, is
there any other I don't you said

that. You told that story
yesterday about your last US

Open, and you beat two Olympic
champions at the same US Open.

And I don't know if there is
anybody that's ever that else

has ever done that.

Well, they did an article. No,
they did an article about that.

It might have been done
internationally, but not in the

United States. That were a guy
beat two Olympic gold medals,

and it just happened to be in
the US Open. So that's, that's

not a little Cavalier
tournament, you know, you show

up a Podunk tournament, but that
was, that was a tough tournament

that you're and that's what
you're trained to do, and you're

expected to do when you reach a
certain level. So, you know, I

was, I always said I was among
the sharks, too. My hit list is

unbelievable with with the guys
that I had to make that Olympic

team in 92 I had to wrestle
through Dave Schultz, Melvin

Douglas and Kevin Jackson, that
three World Champs right there.

So they talk about parity now
about, oh, you got dake and

Burroughs. Then, wait, we had,
we had that four of us. You

know, the only one that could be
close would be Burroughs, dake

and Taylor, when they were
trying to make that that team

for Rio. But it's good to have
that parody, because that's what

we need, and that's what we need
in our in Iowa right now. You

know, I'm always a Hawkeye. I
talked to Tom brands half hour

this morning. We need where your
backups can go to another school

and and win it. And that's,
that's what we're getting back

to. And certainly, the tables
have changed for a lot of this

NL, money. You know, it's crazy.
Can you believe being as a

junior high school being offered
$5 million to come to come to

Iowa, unbelievable. I'm not
gonna mention any names, but you

guys kind of know, yeah, yeah.
It is. My ex father in law

called me about two weeks ago.
And he goes, Man, did you see

that he turned down that money
for 5 million? I said, Where the

hell was that 5 million back
when you went? And I said, Yeah,

I know I missed the boat. And he
goes, we all did

this talking about that today.
Like, man, just like what you

and LuBu and Enrico would have
been. Lord, back in the day, my

goodness,

well, I would have shoot. I was
I would have spent a third on

alcohol, another third on on
women, and I probably just blown

the rest.

Yeah, cuz it wasn't, it was It
wasn't all work back in the day.

It was work and play. You guys,
you guys. You guys worked hard

and played hard back in the day,
didn't you? I mean, it's, I

mean, this is, like, legendary
stuff. I mean, I literally tell

people about how you guys, I
couldn't even imagine, like,

what, what transpired back in
you, your day with, with that

crew you were

in well, and I want to preface
what I just said, that was an

old babe, Ruth, you said, third
on alcohol, third on debauchery,

and the other third I just blew.
So I'm not gonna try to take

credit for that, and I don't
want to get in trouble for that.

But I always said that I came
along during the perfect time

for me, though, I tell people I
had a PhD when I left the farm

and they go PhD, I said, Yeah,
poor, hungry and driven, and

that's what you want. You want
just a little bit of angst to

you. And I was a recruiter for
Dan Gable for about nine years.

I always looked at their their
socio economics, and if the guys

had a little bit of money, and
they had a nice car and maybe an

ancillary vehicle that they took
on trips. And I would shy away

from them a little bit. I would
go more towards the guys that

had nothing, because you're
going to fight a lot more. Now

this money's changed the whole
dynamic, the paradigm of money

and wrestling in this and that,
you know, when you got money.

Everything seems okay, you know.
But when you're not, and you got

to go win that US Open, maybe
you're four months behind in

rent. You know, that's why I
went over. And that'll be a

whole nother podcast going to
the fox catcher. You know, I was

the first Hawkeye to come over
there. So I'm, I've seen a lot

at 60, I can really look back.
I'm in the process of collecting

stories for my own book, you
know. And it's going to be more

along the level of this podcast,
more Cavalier and not takes

ourselves too serious, but draw
drives home. Some point,

everybody's got a serious you
know, no matter what happens

somewhere, somebody out there
will take something too serious,

and that's not my stuff. It's
not my style. Well, you

mentioned,

you mentioned Fox cashier, and
you mentioned competing against

Dave Schultz back in the day,
but you also, you were also

very, very tight with him. You
had a great relationship

with, yeah, yeah. We wrestled a
couple times. Yeah. What was it

like wrestling that guy? I mean,
it was phenomenal. You know

what? You asked about stories.
I'll give you a story. So I was

one of the first ones to go to
Fox catcher, the one of the to

go out there. Rico chiparelli
lived out there, so I don't

really put him in that that
encapsulate him there. But he

was the fox catcher too, but I
was the one that left the

Hawkeyes, and I said, I'm not
leaving you guys. I'm just

coming out there because they
got great partners out there. So

I went out there, and I showed
up for workout, and there was a

limousine to pick me up at the
Philadelphia Airport,

an nil. No, it wasn't. Yeah,
right.

Well, he was an IL before n i l
was so, so I got, I got in. They

had big sign. First time
anybody's ever had a sign that

said Roy salger. I was like,
wow, this is a whole different

world. You ever had that when
you got off a plane and they, I

mean, think about it. Guy
dressed up like a guy, like out

of the movies, so I went in
there, and they drove me

straight to practice. I came and
put my bags down, and I was

going to get a sauna, but the
workout was in the middle. The

Workout started at three, so it
was about 420 so I was watching

workout, and I went to the sauna
afterwards. But in the middle of

the workout game, Schultz, who
I'd never met before, came up

and asked me if I go tomorrow,
the next day? And I said, Okay.

And he said, Good, one o'clock.
Okay. Then I was like, I looked

up on the list, thinking they
changed workout, and it wasn't,

was it three o'clock tomorrow?
He wants to go at one, so I go

in there. Have you ever watched
the movie Apocalypse Now? Kind

of an austere, kind of ominous
feeling when you get there. I

walked in there in the room, it
was a long wrestling room, and

there's four mats, and it was
dark and sullen. It was just

like somebody's gonna die in
here. And I was hoping it wasn't

me. So I go over there, and he's
putting his shoes on against the

wall. So I came over there, and
I slid down. I'm gonna put my

shoes on with him. And that's
kind of a right of, you know,

how you say, How you doing, you
know, I'm gonna put my shoes on.

We're both putting our shoes on.
And he got up, we went to the

other side of the room. I'm
like, Okay, this guy's playing

head games with me. He's He's a
legend. He's our. Radio, four

time, four or five time. World
medals. Let me go. Medals. I

said, Okay, I hadn't lost
workout in two years. So I'm

like, okay, he wants this. We're
gonna go. So there was a huge

swimmer clock up on the wall,
and it clicked. You know, you

can see what time it was. Just
clean this day. It was probably

three foot wide, three foot
deep, you know, whatever. And,

and exactly at one o'clock he
got took the center, and he

dropped down to one knee. So
I'm, I mean, I'm not gonna let

that some bitch get more than
me. So I dropped down. He goes

go, and he jumps over, and he
front headlocks me, and I post

my hand on my knee, and he's
caught just enough of my my

shoulders driving into my
jugular vein. But I'm posted out

like and he's not gonna but his
grip was so strong and so

tenacious, I never felt felt
like the gears of the machine,

but it felt like, Have you ever
stuck your hand in the cell

that's gone, that's moving? You
know what I'm talking about,

like a garage door. You just
feel it coming, you know? And

and after about, I'd say, about
four minutes, he didn't leave

that position. It was just kind
of like a snake around you. And

I don't remember anything after
that. And I woke up, and I

looked at the clock, and it was
12 after one, and I was out, and

he was splashing. He made two
trips to the locker room, to the

room where the medicine is, and
the ice and all that stuff. And

he he gave was putting rags on
me and ice on me woke me up, and

I had a bad, bad headache, and I
just got up and I said, I'm

never wrestling you in a unless
there's somebody around, because

he probably could have killed
me, but that was kind of his way

of peeing on the trees around
the bushes. I never thought ill

of him for it. I just knew that.
I just knew there were guys out

there like that. I just never
felt one before. So, I mean, you

have a certain responsibility of
safety when you're wrestling

somebody and you're out of
position and stuff, but that was

no, there's no, there's no
written agreement between lions

and lambs. You're going into
battle, and you better be

vigilant, because there's guys
out there that will take you

out. And he it was the first
time I ever felt for my the fear

of my life. And what's crazy
about that story is, I told it

to Randy Lewis one time, and he
was bawling. I'll let him tell

his story, but he was balling.
He did it to me too. And then

Tom brands, who's driving the
car goes, he did it to me too.

So we all have that first
experience of death, of like,

okay, this guy almost killed us.
But that was, that was a great

learning lesson to be vigilant,
because there's times it gets a

little heady, you know, you
start swatting and it's just you

two working out. I mean, you can
choke a guy to death and you

feel it in that was the first
time I ever felt anything like

that. And I got a lot of respect
for him too. You know, I just

love the guy.

Yeah, because you guys obviously
your relationship.

At his funeral,

I sang in his soon acapella,
they asked me if I could pull

off a song. I said, Of course I
can. Back in those days, of

course I can. That's spoken like
true voice. Alger, come on. I

sing. Ask a question. I sang the
song heroes and friends by Randy

Travis. Oh, that's a great song.
I ain't lived forever, but I've

lived enough. Still.

Do it, yeah, so do it. Step
aside. Eli, step aside. Old

Dad's coming in, right? Yeah,
absolutely. Well, I mean, so

Schultz. I mean, obviously you
wrestle him in competition a

couple times, but would you
consider him? I mean, he would

probably, you know, he said,
anybody your weight class had

been one of your nemesis, but
you had a lot of them back in

the day. A lot of nemesis, a lot
of

well, the first time I saw Dave
Schultz wrestle, live, live. He

had TechEd Kevin Jackson 1989 at
that same sun kissed tournament.

I was in WoW, and I deferred not
to talk to about my matches with

him. He was a 63 pounder moving
up to 180 so I don't you know

that guy's done so much for
wrestling. I was just, let's

just put this way, I was. It was
a wonderful thing to have him

around my career and and also,
I'm one of those guys that got

to say I got to wrestle Chris
Campbell. I trained with. What

was that? Like, Chris Campbell
was phenomenal. That's the best

I've ever put my hands on,
really, that's, I was just gonna

ask you, no, no, he was the best
I've ever put my hands on.

He. I mean, that's like all
international guys, all

American, no one's

no one's not from what I was.
Felt Wow. Now I wrestled with

John Smith, and that's not the
same, but the best guy at my

weight, contemporary Chris
Campbell, was 30, I think maybe

37 or 38 when he took that
bronze, yeah, and he lost the

kadarse in the semifinals by one
point. So, I mean, he was right

there. So be able to do that.
He's one of my one of my guys I

live look up to, so and I've
wrestled some, you know, I was

telling you on the ride over
here, 30 years ago, no, 40 years

ago. This weekend, I I started
my trek to become a legend. And

they said, What do you mean by
legend? I said, in order to

become a legend, you got to beat
a legend. And I wrestled Andre

Metzger in the finals of the
Midlands in 1985 and beat him

nine to eight. Wow. So that was
the first step, when I could

beat guys that have literally
moves named after them, the

Metzger, if anybody knows
anything about wrestling on this

podcast, a Metzger is, is, is a
formative just a great, great

move. It's a very, very strong
defensively and offensive move,

you know, it's done, you know,
with position and leverage. And

he actually met scared me right
at the end. I stepped out of it

and metzgered him, really. And
Gable goes, shot him with your

own gun. And I love Metzger to
this day, he came to my house

and slept on my couch. Wow. And
Randy Lewis lives with me. Randy

Lewis, unfortunately, he's a
double stroke victim. We don't

make any in he's been living
with me now for about six years.

So it's kind of like the
Brotherhood we call ourselves.

We have the Heisman house.

Yeah, so we're gonna get the
Heisman house, and that's gonna

be, I'm not

gonna mention his stories, but
Andre Metzger came to my house

about two years ago, and I get a
knock on my door, and I open up

and and it's, I'm, like, it was
snowing out. And he goes, who

the hell it's Andre Metzger,
yeah, come on in. So he comes on

in, and he sits down, and I'm,
I'm turning the TV down because

Randy likes to use listen to it
at the highest level. And I

said, rain, we're gonna visit
here. So I was talking, and I

go, Andre, can I get you
anything you use? Yeah, if you,

I wouldn't mind if you, you make
me a ham sandwich and blah,

blah, blah, blah, and maybe a
glass of milk and some chips. So

I went in there, whipped him up.
He ate everything. I'm like, I

did ask him. He just showed up.
He showed it. Randy Lewis

invited. He was going through
town or something, so he slept

on my couch. But 40 years ago,
and I'll never forget, because I

was succeed in the Midlands. I
wasn't Roy selju yet. I was just

an aspiring Roy Seljuk, if you
can do that. And they kept on

there and Andre Metzger ring
because he had lost to vidsive

in the world at 149 I was at 158
but VIV moved up. So he became

ranked number one ranked in the
world. Wow, of course, he was

doing number two in the world.
Yeah, rank number one in the

world. Andre Metzger, you know,
the girl that does that, not the

guy, but Sally, right? And, and,
like everybody else, is shaking

like a dog passing hammer
handles. And I'm sitting back

there with with Dan Gable. I'm
back there with Dan Gable, and

I'm like, I'm with Dan Gable. I
don't worry about that guy.

Yeah, I got legends back here.
You know, that's the that's the

big thing. That's the big thing
about really becoming a legend

is you gotta, you gotta, you're
around other people,

contemporaries that have those
goals and have those it takes

that, that shininess off them,
like, Oh, shit. I just had lunch

with him the other day. He's in
two time. Now I can do that.

Yeah, he eats the same way I do.
He's working in the same room I

am. So I always said a lot of
those national titles were won

right there in that sauna, just
listen to stories. I just wanted

to have a story to shut somebody
else up in there. Then I, you

know, then you win one national
title. Then you got to win How

many did you win? While you got
to at least win two, I'm just

gonna be a one. Then you got us
opens. And then you got world

medals. How many world medals
you got? Because that's the true

mark. You know, I tell
everybody, I got went off to my

very first World Championships.
I took silver. I was so proud of

that I took it home and had it
bronzed.

Of course, he did, yeah, Terry,
Terry brands, once, he always.

He always had this little figure
speech. Said, if the sauna Walls

Could Talk, oh, what's I mean,
you got to have one story that

sticks out. Royce in the sauna.
Give us an Iowa, Iowa wrestling

story from back in the day in
this in the sauna. Hold on

there. I don't

know. I'm so damn popular, this
phone keeps coming off. I was

thinking about getting rid of my
cell coverage. Is just start

hanging out with everyone that I
know

that's busy too.

Oh, you know what? Let me tell
you something, some of the

craziest things in the sauna
weren't really applicable to

wrestling. A lot of it was just,
a lot of it was just hearsay and

stories from the night you know,
that you got, I

remember, I remember the first
time that I, like, saw you and

Tom and Terry, like, with a
little rubber gym, with the

bands, like doing curls and
presses and bungee stuff. And so

I'm like, What are these guys
doing? What in the world? Pretty

soon later, I was doing, what am
I doing? This is crazy.

No, that little those, I started
those little bungees, yeah,

yeah. Those are back in 83 so
there's a myriad of stories

about the sauna. I tell the
stories when I first went to,

like, I went to a place called
Yakutsk. If you look that up,

it's Yakutsk. I don't know if
that's in Siberia. I believe it

is the farthest east part,
almost to where the Bering Sea

is. You know, that's how east of
Russia it is. I don't know if

people realize that Russian
United States, as per Alaska,

were once connected. And
dasanas, there are like, eight

or nine tiers. I heard they're
crazy, yeah. And you couldn't

set up at the top two unless
you're a world, a world, world

medals on the second highest and
only Olympic gold medals got to

sit at the top really, yeah. And
I loved it, because I was like,

I'm gonna freaking sit there
someday. I got, you know, I

tried as hard as I could. I took
a silver in the world. I went 23

and one the year I did. And I
just thought I was gonna win the

Olympics. I was gonna win the
worlds in 91 and the Olympics 92

and then coach Iowa afterwards.
But that's not how it went. So a

guy that I'd beat five in a row
and 10 to four in the national

finals end up beating me to make
that team. Kevin Jackson, so,

well, that's, that's a whole
nother,

which is, you said it was like
the greatest American rivalry in

now, flow wrestling, that's
right, I think. Well, Flo

wrestling said, out of all the
guy, the superb world medalists

and guys that met in the
national finals, man, you don't

have Larry owing going out and
winning world titles, and then

come back, I wrestled get Chris.
I wrestled Kevin Jackson 18

times. I'm 10 and eight against
him, and I won the I was seven

and two going into that team in
92 so if we had these other

rules right now, and I hope he's
listening, if he had these rules

where you had to hold the mat,
he would have never beat me

ever, because he wouldn't hold
the mat ever. But they can say

what they want about that.

I'm still Roy salger, and I'll
talk like

so I kind of like these rules,
but, well, I missed the NL. I

missed the whole Matt rules so,
but you know what? At the end of

the day, it's just a bunch of
freaking excuses. You know what

I say to people out there? I'm
the guy that has to listen to

all the guys that almost won a
state title and almost won a

national or became an American.
You know what I say to him? Now

I said, I'm gonna stop you right
there. And I This might hurt

your feelings when you say it,
but it was just, it'll just been

a lot easier just to win that
damn match, because everybody's

sick and everybody's hurt, and
everybody this, and everybody

beat that guy, and I love you,
and this sport is gets the pain

out of you. It's a painful,
painful, it's some similar to a

contemporary marriage. I can
say,

Yeah, that's good. That's good.
Well, I mean, like I said, I

mean, obviously,

which is why I'm trying to save
my divorce.

Oh, man, but no, I remember
watching you and Jackson go at

it. I mean, what I mean? And
obviously, you know, I mean when

you guys were competing against
each other, I was state, but

just more internationally than
when I when I got to Iowa, you

know, obviously you were, you
know, still Hawkey club stuff,

and then watching you guys on
the senior level is just, yeah,

it was, what was the difference
between, when you made that skip

from the from the college level
to the international level? What

was that like, that whole
transition to being one of the

very, very best in in our
country? Yeah. And then having

to go and go out and,

well, I'll tell you what, um,
here's the deal. Here's just how

I I'm taking my shirt off here.
Things are getting sweaty. We're

talking about Kevin Jackson
holding the mat, and it's

getting crazy. I'm gonna put my
hat on. It's good thing. I'm not

wearing any underwear?

Oh, there's sticky in here.

No, here's the deal. I always, I
always everybody that's ever

known me, I've always willed
myself to win anyway. I just

those progressions. I knew I was
going to be in my fourth grade

book, I wrote to myself about
winning a world title and a

national title, so those goals
were very early. In fact, it's

funny story. I bumped into the
to the press citizen guy when I

got inducted in the Hall of Fame
in 2012 and he was laughing

before I even got to talk to
him, I said, What are you

laughing at? He goes, you had
the funniest saying or quote

I've ever heard when you got
inducted in the 12. And I said,

What did I say? And you said, I
asked you, you know what you

you're from Lisbon, that's 20
miles from here, and you went to

Iowa. You didn't take any
recruiting trips. You didn't go

to any other school you never
thought about do you have any

regrets? And I said, Well, this,
there is one. And he was like,

you know, okay, what is it? And
I said, Well, the only grit I

ever had that is never in the
Iowa crowd to cheer for myself.

And he goes, he goes, I wanted
to put that so bad, but I didn't

think you were serious. I said,
you should have put that down.

That's exactly how I felt. He
goes, have fun. You know, I had

another reporter one time. We
were out in Colorado Springs,

and he goes, Well, you train for
two cycles, and not a lot of

people do, you know that's a
long time to train. That's hard

on your body. You took a silver
medal in the world right away.

You know, you're ranked number
one in the world. Did you ever

think about not training? I
said, you know, it's funny. I

had a lot of friends that told
me, you know, be happy with that

silver medal and you're beating
your body up. You need to go

maybe smell the roses and maybe
retire. He goes, what did that

do? And I said, Well, I listened
to him, and it kind of motivated

me a little bit. I remember that
I got up real early one morning

and I went out and I got a whole
new set of friends.

That's that. Did that happen? I
kind of stopped talking to those

guys. Listen that shit. I gotta
get up at six in the morning.

Yeah, you need to quit doing
that. You're beating your body

up above. Well, okay, well, I
didn't pick up their phone

calls. The greatest thing to do.
Here's the one thing about I

want to give to all you young
people out there, whatever as

hard as your life might be when
you think it is, or your

interactions with other people,
people are going to do what

people are going to do, and
there's no way you can make

somebody pick up the phone or
you make no way you're going to

get somebody to get up and
answer that Call at five in the

morning and go run. It's got to
come internally, and it's got to

be intrinsic to who you are. So
I talked about that, that that

PhD is not just something of a,
you know, it's not an acronym.

It's it's something, you know,
you can't fake being poor and

you can't fake being hungry, and
you can't fake being driven. And

as silly as I am on the other
side of the equation, on the

polar opposite of that, I'm as
serious as you can be. In fact,

the representative of each
other, the crazier I am over

here shows you how serious I was
over here. And you need those

duality, kind of like that
dichotomy of emotions and

energies to offset it, because
if you're just one side, you're

going to be go crazy. So you got
to make sure that you're doing

it for the right reasons. But
I've seen, I've seen one state

title. I'll give you another
story here one time, Tom, Tom

brands, Terry brands, and myself
were going out to Colorado

Springs. And we, we, we had
rented this shitty Saturn from

Carl, Chevrolet and Cedar Rapids
or whatever, and we were driving

it out there. And course, Terry
and Tom were just beating the

hell out of it. So on the way
back, tire blue, you know,

because we took it up to Pikes
Peak, and we were just doing

crazy sitting. I wasn't, I
don't, I know, never drive when

those two are in the car. So we
get, we're coming up, we get to

a place called Sterling. It's on
the way back from Denver to

before you hit Nebraska. I think
that's the name of the town.

Tire goes flat, so we're in
there. And. We go, we pull it

in, we go to the gas station,
and it's, it's, it's tubbies,

tubbies tires and and gas
whatever. Says, Hey, we want, we

need a new tire. And he goes,
Well, you know, we don't have

these tires here. We looked in
here. We're gonna have to send

somebody from down to Denver.
It's gonna be a couple hours.

You guys can go eat. So, okay,
yeah, by the way, Tubby, he owns

this place. He's state champ. He
won the state title in 1972 or

whatever, and blah, blah, blah,
it's about gables age a little

bit younger. So he said, Okay,
we went over the restaurant. We

ordered food and this and that.
And the lady goes, well, you

know Tubby, he's he wanted to
state title across the street.

He's already, he's got born and
bred here, and certainly, oh,

wow, that's good. That's great.
Yeah, we heard that. Blah, blah,

blah. Then we go over to grocery
store to get up some waters and

this and that and just same
thing again. Cashiers that we so

we go back to the gas station
here, waddles in this five foot

two bat balded. Hey, I won a
state title. So I would tell

everybody that one state title
can raise the station of a whole

town. It can raise the spirits
of it. You know, remember back

in Liz, back in at the state
tournament, guy from Stanwood,

Lincoln, Stanwood went first guy
that ever go to state, their

school closed down, yeah, and
they put three school busses up

there. It's crazy. And anytime
you have three busses from

Stanwood, Des Moines, Iowa, they
are a long ways from home. Stan

was just another Mechanicsville
without the glitter.

So it's Stanwood Mechanicsville
up there.

You have to be from Iowa to
understand this company,

Mechanicsville in Des Moines,

like the low Royce Alger jabs of
all small town Iowa, because,

because he's because Lisbon's
the supremacy.

Well, they say in Stanwood that
town hasn't grown in 50 years,

because every time a girl gets
pregnant, the guy leaves town.

Well, speaking

of being on, we're gonna, we're
gonna go into a special segment

right now, just real quick, and
we'll get back the hell just

well, this is gonna be, this is
gonna be, this is gonna be the

time of the episode right here
that everybody's gonna want to

tune into. But every week we
are, we are going to do a nobody

knows section. Yes, nobody knows
that this, this, this episode is

nobody knows. Section is
sponsored by my boy, Josh

sturgell, at consolidated
medical. And we want to know,

and let's keep this rated R
below. Joyce, we can't be good.

We can't be getting we can't be
we can, we can't, I know. We

can't be getting kicked off
YouTube. You know, first, first

episode out the joke. No, it's
been good. It's been good. We're

just gonna ease it into it. But,
uh, give us a story, no, that

nobody knows. Well, I mean, you
know you're closest, whatever

you're close, but the masses,
nobody knows.

Royce, this is one of my austere
stories. It has to do a little

bit with it has to do the last
trip I went on with Dave Schultz

in we were roommates, and he he
would hang out clothes and show

me how to make spaghetti and
coffee pots and and he spoke

fluent Russian. I don't know if
people know that. And then we

would, at the end of the
tournament, we would go down to

a place called arbot Street in
Moscow in he had dark chocolate

and cognac, and we would go out
and drink and eat dark chocolate

and play chess against the
locals, and it was unbelievable.

But that whole time was like a
28 day camp. We had a training

camp in Minsk, and so I was
rooming with him, and he showed

me all the tricks in the trades
and and and smiles a lot and in

the at every workout, he had
this little black book that he'd

write in it, and he'd write
Daniel Schultz would never leave

with the team. He always stayed
over in Russia. He said, I'm

gonna go to Stockholm. I'm gonna
go here. I'm gonna make my way

back through Denmark. I'm gonna
go here. I'm gonna go there. So

he never, he never was congruous
to rules in things. And I

remember one time he left out
two days early and I was

cleaning up our room. And I
don't I never even told his

brother. I never told anybody,
and I have never opened that

book up, but I found that book,
but I always felt like I

shouldn't have read that book,
so I didn't,

and no one knows that,

so that's kind of an austere
because you asked, no one knows

but, but all the great
wrestling. Users that I know,

they have kept some kind of log
or some kind of thing, they were

very circumspect, especially
competitors. I would I write

about twice a week. I there's
there's no reason there's no

fall there's no reason why I
don't have a lot of material,

because I read and I Muse and I
write, and I just know that

there's certain enigmatic minds
out there, all of them, Gable

Schultz Tom brands, very well
written, very cerebral, very

circumspect, and if they have
something that resonates with

them, they're going to write now
people would give money for that

black book.

Did you take anything out of
that until they and apply it

moving forward?

No, no, I didn't look in the
black. Oh, you didn't. I thought

you looked at it. No, no, I
Well, I will say something.

There was other scribblings. And
if there's anything like that,

it was like break, you know,
break them on break their will,

blah, blah, blah, something more
along the lines, not technical

so much, but I never opened it
up, because he died, that, that,

that, that about five months
later. So I didn't mean to turn

this into a morbid whatever, but
you said, no one knows. I know,

and it's at the farm in the
basement. So where I keep a lot

of other secrets in all the
other dead bodies.

Speaking of dead bodies, who is
the who is the toughest teammate

that you had back in your day?

Chris Campbell, yeah. Well,
here's the deal. Chris Campbell,

is 10 years my junior. He our
senior, senior. He won it in 78

I won it in 88 we're both
undefeated two years. We're both

two time national champs. We
both took a silver in the world

together. But I got a call from
him going, Hey, I'm thinking

about training. I'm like, you
know you.

And he said, Don't worry about
that.

He didn't try out for 84 or 88
and he came back. He wanted make

the team navy.

So I would go through workouts

like I said, pushing me because
he was, he was the, he was voted

the most technical wrestler in
the world in 81 and, I mean, he

won. That's a big deal for an
American.

Especially, felt it. I felt I
brought my boy. Well, what made

him

so good technically? I'm just
curious

about that. You couldn't get,
you just couldn't get him out of

position, really club him. I
mean, with these rules, that's

how I would have tried to beat
somebody like that. You can't

take them down like gotchas.
Gotchas was almost impossible to

take down. You beat them up and
push them out. Which I agree.

And I digress a little bit. I am
so glad we're getting rid of

that grounding rule. It's such a
chicken shit rule, and anybody

ever came up with that. And
another thing too, we need to

get rid of the weight
limitations. These kids are so

much bigger now. You know Chris
Taylor, we'd never have a story

about Chris Taylor.

Like I said, I digress. My mind
moves quick, but

Chris Campbell was phenomenal.
The only guy that would have

gave him, I would imagine I
never got to wrestle. Mark

Schultz, but with the part here,
if you put people down, but you

ain't taking Chris Campbell
down, you're gonna have to get

him down on a partier or a
technicality. I watched him win

crosniarsk into Blissey. We went
to the first year they had

crossed the arch the last year
that Tbilisi. I watched him win

12 matches without giving up a
point. He gave up one chicken

push out point, and that wasn't
that wasn't fair. He didn't get

taken down 1212. Matches didn't
get scored against all the best

Russians, all the best Russians,
and you got shitty revs. The

hardest thing about winning
tblissey is not just because

it's a tough tournament and you
got to blow through five or six

Russians. It's because the
publicity refs. It's a bunch of

people from Tbilisi. They ain't
gonna, they don't give that up.

So I've had some unbelievable,
unbelievable times over there.

Well, I bet

what's been your most unique, I
guess, international experience

just, I mean, like a weird thing
you ate, or just something

internationally that this comes
to mind right away.

Oh, by far. First time I went
over with the brands brothers

before and I was traveling on an
old passport. I didn't know that

you had to use your the new one
you got. I loved my old one, and

it wasn't clipped or anything. I
didn't know why I couldn't do

it. I just lost it. And I was
going to Istanbul with Gable. He

was head wrestling coach in 2094
so I went and got another

passport. And then when the
Russian trip, I won sun kissed.

So I get to go to Russia. And.
And all of a sudden, I took my

old passport. Well, this is 19,
well not and this is like 91

this is before they won the
world. So this was 91 right when

the wall came down to 90 in
Russia. You know, remember the

Wall came down, and I get over
there and they pulled my card

right away, and then they
handcuffed me to a guy from like

Azerbaijan. They did the
handcuffed me to him in the

chair where back to back. And
you guys with experience with

handcuffs out there, you do not
pull on them, because they get

tighter, any tighter in the
harder you pull. So I'm trying

to talk to this guy in broken
language, and he's yelling at me

in Arabic or whatever the hell
they got. So they finally on the

here's the great thing about
this story, it can be validated.

Terry brands fought his way when
they handcuffed me to the floor,

I might have been I was still
handcuffed to that guy from

Azerbaijan. Terry wanted to come
and make sure they weren't

killing me because he'd watched
that Midnight Ride, that

midnight whatever, that movie
about guy in Turkey that gets

what's the name of that movie?
Midnight? Something? Midnight

Run? No, it's not Midnight Run.
It's something else. Midnight,

something what Midnight Express,
it might have been. Yeah. So

good job. Good Catch over there,
and he knew that they could have

tortured and killed me, and we
had the President of the United

States get involved to get me an
emergency passport. So I waited

there 28 hours. I was handcuffed
to a chair that was cemented in

the ground. So that was better
than sitting down so at least I

could sleep. I was in my fast
catcher long jacket, and Terry

comes in fights his way, because
I just want to look at him. I

want to see his eyes. I look up
there. My eyes are like so they

go down and they left. I had to
go catch. I had to go catch the

later thing. I actually caught
up to him later, because it was

a four hour, four day train ride
out to cross the arcs. Wow,

yeah, so and I was sucked and
weighed it sucked in in this

big, heavy, portly guy comes up
with a tripod camera, and I'm

sitting up there taking my
passport picture. We got to

issue a new passport. Cost 2600
bucks, and this is 91 so that in

today's economy, that's got to
be like four grand, maybe more.

And I'm sitting there, that's 30
some years, 35 years ago. Wow.

So put that your hat and smoke
it. So I'm sitting there, I'm

sitting there in this portly guy
goes, you know, he talked real

slow, it's like, and he goes,
You know, this is only the

second time we've ever had to do
this. And he had kind of like a

Humphrey Bogart kind of draw to
him or something. I was just

like, Oh, really. Who's the
first? He goes, Well, 1974 Bobby

Fisher,

this is Casey. JJ,

so I was, I was like, okay, he
just gave me the greatest story

topping story I could ever have
in my life. And anybody starts

running their cake hole at a
party saying I got this story.

Shut your hole and sit down. I'm
about ready to hold court over

here, I got handcuffed to a
dissident in Moscow. I'm the

second passport that's ever been
issued behind enemy lines. So

shut your hole and sit down.

If it wasn't for body Fisher,
you'd be the first that's,

that's, that's a pretty, that's
a pretty big deal to follow.

Yeah, no, I'm glad I followed
it. I get my who gets in the

middle, and then I was down in
Cuba one time. He was a big hero

down there. I guess he went
down. Yeah, Bobby Fisher went to

Cuba. I didn't know that. Wow,
they got pictures of him and

this and that pictures with
Hemingway and I mean, if you

ever get a chance to go to Cuba,
what now? Trump screwed that up

for all of us. Probably gonna
get Secret Service at my house,

I heard kiwi is amazing.

Speaking of secret service this
year, so my son's a singer, and

he sang the Star Spangled Banner
at the nationals down in Tulsa

two years ago. Okay, so he was
with Trump, so he gets to hang

out and hobnob with Trump yada
yada. And he's my son, so that's

where he's. Elder son, that
gives you a little step. You

know, you know how that goes.
Just us wrestling is very

esoteric. You know, they were
close. So I'm in Philadelphia,

and Eli goes, Dad, I got to get
down to Trump. I go, Are you

crazy people tried to kill that
guy about four months ago. You

ain't getting no clue, Dad, I
gotta, I gotta try. I gotta try.

I said, All right, here's my
band. Of course, it was a 2018

NCA plan shed. Try to get down
on the floor. Take this

envelope, write a letter to him.
Tell him you want to get because

he was trying to do a raise
money for the town of Spencer.

So Eli says, okay, so he goes
down there. Of course, he gets

handcuffed, and he gets thrown
in a little. So he's on his

phone. He sends off one. They're
handcuffing me right now. I'm

over in an adjacent bar, about
600 yards away, enjoying the

bar. Yeah, ready to enjoy the
finals that I'm like, All right,

I gotta go in. So I was like, I
was like, double Oh, seven. So I

go up there, I walk in the front
door, and all the kid here on

the radio is, so I go in there
and and I said, Listen, I'm

Roy's household. They handcuffed
me with them, little white zip

ties. I can't break them. Don't
try to break them, though.

They'll cut your hands. But they
picked me in a back room and

Eli, they just let Eli and
absconded him from the building.

So they're going through just
they've got everything that I've

ever done in my life in these
four pieces of paper. That's why

I tell people I want to run for
I want to run for public office

in my 60s, to piece together my
20s. So I'm sitting there, I'm

sitting there, and I'm going
Listen the guy lives in a

Winnebago, a motor home down in
Nashville, if you want to go in

there and try to scapulate A
fine out of him. Good luck. So

so they put me through the
ringer, kicked us both out, so

we will back, and we're hanging
out, and I'm like, Eli, that's a

bad move. Blah, blah, blah, I
don't know you told me to give

him an envelope, and I wasn't
thinking about the ricin and

people trying to kill you know
what I'm saying. You can't do

that. So I get home. I don't
know how we got in the story,

but it was police, I guess hand
kills. I get home to my house, I

walk in there. There's four cop
cars at my house at nine in the

morning, and two guys from
Kansas City Secret Service. And

they walk, we need to talk to
you. I said, What? What's this

about? And he goes, You know
what this is about. This about

Philadelphia. You had you gave
your son a fraudulent

identification. And I said, Yes.
And he goes, so what do you want

from me? And he goes, well, we'd
like to do a psychological eval.

And I said, Well, all right,
I'll let you crawl up in here,

but if you can't get out, it's
your fault. So they sat down for

about 20 minutes with me. Go.
Let's get the hell out of here.

This guy is okay, but it would
have been interesting

psychological.

I told him, you can come up
here, but you might not get out.

Well, let's, let's bring it home
with this on this, this note. So

two things with this, with this
right here in this, right here,

that in this, this will probably
bring up a couple stories, but

so good buddy, good buddy of
mine, Josh dull, obviously, the

one that sponsored the nobody
knows section. He was at the

Iowa camps a couple years ago,
and he asked me to ask you about

this, but there's a sign up
above the penalty box, I think

that you put up there. Said, the
older I get, the better I was,

yeah, I guess we couldn't
really, yeah, we could. We

couldn't really end on a better
story than that. I mean, is

that, is that the way these
these stories get better the

older

you get? Royce, first of all,
there was an old WC Fields. A

cigar is just a cigar, but a
woman's no woman's just a woman,

but a cigar is a smoke, you
know. So he was him, him or

Fatty Arbuckle. I'm a big
proponent of the old guys. So

that's where I got the better,
you know, more time goes by, the

better I am, or whatever. But I
put the penalty box up there

because all the little sallies
that we get come in, you know,

get multiple Stallings, or was
just wasn't carrying their shit

Gable would abscond them to the
penalty box. Of course, I was

never in the penalty box, but
for any of that stuff, I mean,

I've my penalty box was a real
penalty box. I was sitting PD,

but

which is gonna be a whole other
podcast,

any route I, I would, I would,
and I finally put up there,

because somebody Sally's up
there, you know, the way you

penalized people at Iowa. This
is a paradox. Is You didn't let

them work out. They had to sit
up there and watch other people

work out. Put the signers up
there sometime. Tell them they

can't wrestle. It's crazy. The
mentality and what was built in

hewn from that mind of Gable.
It's all started and stopped

with Gable, but I just finally
had to put up there. Roy salger

was never here, you little
Sally. I think they still have

that up there. Design still up
there. I think so, but I think

they might have taken it down to
the other room. Now, I don't

know I'm, I'm, I'd have to look
into that. But, yeah, I've had a

lot of fun with everybody. So I
kind of tried to be that common

denominator that that unites,
yeah, yeah. I talked to gable

for a half hour today. You know,
he talks about, there's when

people take their breaks when,
when I won my first Midland

title, he gave me two days off,
and everybody was pissed off at

me and him, but he goes, You
don't know, he just beat Andre

Metzger. He knew this guy needs
to run for a little bit, so he

got a good read on me my junior
senior year, no one had any more

fun and kicked more butt than I
did. You know, and that's what

we need to get back to realize
that this sport is here to make

us better and enhance our lives,
not control them with losses,

you know. And that's where a lot
of people fell short, at Iowa,

you know, here I am, 30 some
years later from my career.

It'll be 40 years since I won a
national title at Iowa. Here in

2007 you know,

or 9787 8787

it'll be 40 years next year.
Wow. But in to be still be

relevant, and still be a guy
that you want on podcasts, and

still be I can't. I told
everybody, I kind of made it to

the Willie Nelson phase of my
career. You know, the older, you

know, those old guys are like,
Oh, just leave Willie alone. He

wants to smoke a little dough.
Who's he gonna hurt? You know, I

kind of reach that legendary
status of being the old school

the coaches. Coach when I go out
to Colorado Springs, I coach

both Steiner and zadick. They're
the coaches Tom and Terry brands

both. I coached them. I was a
senior when they were true

freshmen. Think of the impact I
had on their lives and their

trajectory of their training.
You remember how much I used to

torture those guys? Oh yeah,
that's why I walk on water back

there. Yeah, I have four seats
behind the team anytime I want

it.

So, yeah, well, we're gonna end
with that, Royce, and this will

not be last time. We've already
got it booked me, you and LuBu

look, ladies and gentlemen.
Ladies and gentlemen, to tell

you what that is, something that
definitely look forward to. I'm

going to have in one room here
in the future, the legendary

Heisman house on one podcast,
when I go visit Iowa, and I

cannot wait and but this was a
great one to start out with. The

Great One himself, the fall guy,
friend of mine

probably back. Here's another
thing I'm gonna do this shout,

I'm gonna take the floor from
you. Come on in. I'll be back

this summer. I want to do a
workshop with you. So I'll bring

Randy out, and we'll put him up,
get feed him, yeah, give him a

place to run around, of course.

Place legends workshop. We're
gonna call it right now, legends

workshop.

Well, we'll do a three day
thing. Let me finish up on what

I want to do with short offense.
And I really am serious about my

hand fighting. Gable just told
me today that it's one of the

most needed things out there in
wrestling right now that people

are out showing hand fighting.
Everybody wants to think it's

all down. So I'm here to I'm

here to help out, and we'll have
you push it a little bit more.

Have a nice summer.

Royce, appreciate you, brother.
All right now, okay, until the

next time. Thanks so much for
tuning in. People. You